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stu_mob
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Stuart Smith, University of Manchester

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« on: February 02, 2008, 01:52:32 PM »

Hi All

I always enjoy the debates and discussions on this forum and I like it's inclusive nature with a mix the technical, pedagogical and commercial and long may the heady mix last!

However I was wondering if we need a post compulsory education area. There are many members with a schools focus and I do work in the schools sectors sometimes but much of my work is FE and HE and in those areas there are different issues which probably do't affect schools. So for example in HE it is very unlikely, except for pilot work, that students would get any devices supplied, which creates interesting issues. Also we would probably look at connectivity costs differently etc. etc..

Now I am not mooting an entire separation but I do think a clear area or areas might be useful. I was wondering what others think? As my usually stubborn mind Wink is far from made up!


Stu
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James Clay
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2008, 12:40:17 PM »

I think it would be useful.
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Graham
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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2008, 12:49:27 PM »

good input!

so do you think we might segment out the "learners and educators" area to cover, say, primary, secondary, post 16/FE/HE?

how would this relate to international terminology, e.g. the US refer to K12, etc?

i just want to ensure that we keep the forum as internationally relevant as possible.

cheers

g
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jont
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« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2008, 04:08:15 PM »

Yes and no....

Education seems to be so fragmented when it could be better joined up.
The less divisions there are the greater the chance of useful information crossing sectors.....

Industry will  do things differently to schools/FE/HE, so I guess there could be a training/lifelong learning/post compulsory education Forum.

Industry can be a bit paranoid though (not saying education isnt)
but I wonder if its time some of the more interesting discussions were only available to members :-)




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wolfluecker
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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2008, 04:41:10 PM »

I think it would be very useful to have some gentle distinction between formal and informal learning. Sometimes discussions get a bit confusing and needlessly controversial (like here), because some members equate Learning = Schools, when that may not be everybody's focus.

I see what you mean about the education (ie public sector) and industry conflicts, but a complete separation wouldn't be beneficial to the exchange of knowledge on this forum.

Wolf.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2008, 07:47:05 PM by wolfluecker » Logged
jont
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« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2008, 04:50:06 PM »

I realise my suggestion of members only could be misinterpreted. I only meant limited to members of the hhl forums, not just members of some sub-group.



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stu_mob
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Stuart Smith, University of Manchester

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« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2008, 04:13:57 PM »

Hi All

Interesting comments so far. I have noticed that in some replies to some threads I have been involved that there is an assumption in some discussions that 'education' = children learning and that can be limiting if we don't have seperate areas for sector specific discussions then how do we ensure a more general definition of education in the forums?

Stu
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Graham
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« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2008, 04:24:19 PM »

I think it would be very useful to have some gentle distinction between formal and informal learning. Sometimes discussions get a bit confusing and needlessly controversial (like here), because some members equate Learning = Schools, when that may not be everybody's focus.

I see what you mean about the education (ie public sector) and industry conflicts, but a complete separation wouldn't be beneficial to the exchange of knowledge on this forum.

Wolf.


I'm in agreement with the second part of Wolf's comment above as whilst it's technically simple for us to segment areas of interest by creating forum categories I'm not entirely sure what purpose this will serve. A thread started and clearly titled would hopefully indicate the subject matter. I'd be worried if by segmenting we discourage people from one sector engaging with another. It's been tricky at our conferences to get different groups to mix and share knowledge and that's before we engage the private/industry/training sector. I'm not against the idea in principle, just don't want to do anything that stops the flow of dialogue.

I do get concerned that the forum becomes a bit technology heavy/focussed sometimes and do want to encourage more sharing of practice and experiences.

I didn't entirely understand the first bit regarding controversy in posts as I didn't find anything controversial in the post identified. There was a discussion about consumer electronics where there was some agreement, followed by debate about insurance then a return to the thread subject of research. Personally I find these vibrant discussions useful and the good-hearted debate hopefully providers readers with food for thought. Discussion boards should be a safe place for opinion as well as sharing knowledge. (we've had a few debates on here haven't we Wolf?  Wink )

Anyway, its a good time for us to exchange ideas of how members would like to see the forum evolve as we are currently doing some redevelopment work. So do keep them coming!

Thanks

G

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Michael Wilkinson
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« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2008, 07:21:49 PM »

Due to inherent differences between compulsory and non-compulsory education models; adults and school based learning, different approaches are adopted to support effective teaching and learning. We can allude to andragogy and pedagogy respectively to define the approaches, but with the new ways of working often associated with leaner mobility we see a diffusion between two. With this in mind, the aspirations of compulsory and non-compulsory education models are beginning to look the same, and school based learning can learn a great deal from the non-compulsory education strategies.
Doesn't really answer the question as to whether they should be separated directly, but I enjoy the input across the board from those associated with HE and feel the experience brought to the table is extensive.
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stu_mob
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Stuart Smith, University of Manchester

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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2008, 12:57:41 PM »

I agree broadly and I think the sector where the blurring is most clear (if a blurring can be clear??!??Wink is FE. In an FE College you can have 'schoolchildren' (14+) and degree students, which must make for a lot of hardwork for the tutors! There are some distinct practical differences though. As I often say the kind of projects we see in schools are very unlikely in HE and also in HE and FE network access control are very different in requirements to those in schools.

So I am starting to think the key to answering my own musing is in how we post. So if I am looking at something from a HE or FE, or schools angle specifically I need to be clear. So that can help the responses. I think though even if an example is from a different sector as has been said that can still be very useful as well.  So I guess I am leaning towards not looking for a seperate section but to being more specific when I am looking for it. - if that makes any sense Wink

Stu
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jont
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2008, 02:12:32 PM »


The differences arent just the pupils/students pedagogy but culture of the sector.
...the differences in the staff responsibilities are also important.

In HE staff may be more interested (or more likely pushed) into pursuing their research responsibilities  (especially to get their RAE points) and perhaps less likely to spend time looking at introducing any new teaching related technology.

and a preception I have is that... HE  talk about it, form working parties which spawn committees, discuss whether it will work then may eventually try something....meantime schools and FE get on with using things,:-)

I was going to make another contentious statement about teaching in HE but I'll save that for anither day....

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stu_mob
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Stuart Smith, University of Manchester

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« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2008, 04:46:44 PM »

Jont that's harsh!!! LMAO Smiley

It depends on where you work, and if I blow my own trumpet the HE based centre I work in has launched the first free nationally availably FE focused service on mobile devices (Hairdresssing Training) - I know as I designed it!

And that illustrates another difference HE is huge: research, teaching, service delivery, libraries supportive services. All these relate and impact 'handheld learning' but are usually well outside the mandate of other sectors.

Stu
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Michael Wilkinson
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« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2008, 07:45:53 PM »

From my own (limited) experience I think in HE the approach of instruct, construct, discuss drawing on multiple perspectives and experiences is something like the norm, something which in school based education we are (relatively) only just working towards. The idea of supporting learning mobility helps embody such approaches with learners equipped to capture learning expereinces and collaboration with peers anytime, anywhere and in any context - and it is our job to support this given the technologies already ambient to those learners
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